cool blocking

[chrispac]

hey i live in california and all the tournaments i've been to more than half of the finalists have REALLY REALLY COOL BLOCKING, the fancy flashy stuff i know its really popular with logan and leland and whatnot. what do you non-claifornians think about flahsy flashy things winning? (synchronization stuff, fight scenes, going a whole 40 sum seconds without talking... etc)

I know in other places it has more to do with acting, or cutting, but in california its just whatever pleases the audience more.. keeps them entertained.

[Chewie]

I hate to say this, because I try not to have an opinion on anything, ever, but it kind of pisses me off. I mean, yes, it takes a great deal of talent, but doing gymnastics and acrobatics doesn't really fall under "speech", does it?

[Ryan]

I feel that tech is a very important element of the event. It shows creativity and that you really put something new and interesting into your presentation. And what is interp but a presentation? Otherwise, it would all be old-style CFL rules.

[xxLusciousZechxx]

I enjoy physicality in Duo a lot. I think it adds to the whole experience.

[dmcordon9]

This seems to be a subject that comes up a lot in Duo lately. Here are my musings on the matter. Back when I was in high school forensics, we could not move around at all. Nothing. No tech. But then it started to come on the scene and at first it was really cool and innovative. Now I'm getting tired of it. I like tech, on one condition, that it is done well. At the beginning of this season I judged a duo final and there was so much needless tech it made me sick. Blocking and tech must be clean (technically) and most of all motivated. I am constantly amazed by James Logan's duos. Their tech is original, motivated and technichally impeccable. I saw "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty" at nats and the thing that impressed me the most is how close the performers were to each other but never touched. During the whole performance their shoulders were no more than two or three inches apart. That is in contrast to the vast majority of duos I saw and judged in which the competitors performed three and four feet apart. I also liked the tech of the team that won. There wasn't too much. Just the right amount. The thing I liked about Nick's duo is that they didn't spin around each other. The whole time (at least as far as I can remember) they were side by side. I thought Sami & Christina's duo just had a little too much movement. So to sum things up: I like tech only if it is well done. If your gonna do it. Do it well.

[BASpeaker]

While I would most certainly agree that blocking and presentation are essential to the success of a piece, I'd also like to stress that flashiness should not be the ultimate goal of a Duo performance. Presence, control, and substance are more important than being unconventional just for the sake of abstraction. For an example of this, take a look at this year's Duo Champs, Ryan Durr and Kristen Leim. They put precise acting ahead of flashy blocking or a catchy piece, and they took home some hardware.

That's not to say that loud, funny, Reduced Shakespeare Company-type pieces are bad or ineffective; just that they aren't the only pieces that can win.

[4n6Friz]

We have to keep in mind tho... a piece like Wrong for Each Other hasn't won duo at nats for like the past 3 or 4 years... ever since the Bible Abridged won nats, all the champs have been mostly tech pieces... and htey were good... but i think them winning this year proves that there is only so much tech stuff one can do... it does get old, even if it is done well... the trend will be drama with a good amount of tech for awhile... then people will get sick of that and then they will move back to flashy stuff... thats just the way it goes... right now, its drama that will succeed! :lol:

[chrispac]

i went to UTNIF and im still trying to figure out the blocking for my peice to make it memorable.. but not extreme. in tournaments such as Santa clara invitational or berkely, judges seem to notice the DUOS with a particualr memorable moment whether its a climax in blocking or drama.

i guess i just gotta try stuff out until something is UNIQUE, ORIGINAL, AND COOL.

[Jesus]

hey i live in california and all the tournaments i've been to more than half of the finalists have REALLY REALLY COOL BLOCKING, the fancy flashy stuff i know its really popular with logan and leland and whatnot. what do you non-claifornians think about flahsy flashy things winning? (synchronization stuff, fight scenes, going a whole 40 sum seconds without talking... etc)


YAH! IN CALIFORNIA WE HAVE COOL BLOCKING...BUT IT SUCKS when you go to nationals and have these ****ing conservative judges from the south who dont like y ou cuz u have a CREATIVE ORIGINAL duo and u dress liberally...so they dont like you even tho ur more entertaining and better and u dont break and get screwed and get pissed!!!!

...Not that iM bitter

[4n6Friz]

Everyone breath for a minute... :roll:
Styles are different everywhere around the US... It seems to me that the trend is going to be drama for awhile... I think people are sick of high energy just blockign stuff... The Kids from James Logan (although they blew me and my duo partner off when we tried to compliment them) were amazing! Their piece has a purpose adn they made it original and entertaining... their blocking made me want to cry bc it was sooo amazing... but really their cutting didnt do too much for me... so it goes to show, fancy foot work wont be the thing that carries you... i can see dramas and pieces that still use blocking but ultimeatly bring you back to drama doing well for awhile here adn then high energy will come back bc people will get sick of drama... just like most are sick of the abridged and all other all blocking pieces... :? YOU KNOW! :)

[funone]

hey i live in california and all the tournaments i've been to more than half of the finalists have REALLY REALLY COOL BLOCKING, the fancy flashy stuff i know its really popular with logan and leland and whatnot. what do you non-claifornians think about flahsy flashy things winning? (synchronization stuff, fight scenes, going a whole 40 sum seconds without talking... etc)


YAH! IN CALIFORNIA WE HAVE COOL BLOCKING...BUT IT SUCKS when you go to nationals and have these ****ing conservative judges from the south who dont like y ou cuz u have a CREATIVE ORIGINAL duo and u dress liberally...so they dont like you even tho ur more entertaining and better and u dont break and get screwed and get pissed!!!!

...Not that iM bitter


i'm not meaning to insult you, but maybe you werent good enough to break and dressing liberally doesnt seem like a good idea with any judge.

-r

[Chewie]

He does this a lot. Just let him cool down and take his valium. He'll be fine.

And also, on the note of dressing liberally, what exactly did this mean, Jesus? Were you in khaki shorts and a wifebeater? Were you nude? If you dress a certain way, then you'll lose credibility, simple as that. If a judge see two pieces that both look great, he's gonna give the 1 to the guys who don't look like they just came out of a beer commercial.

[the durango kid]

Was the James Logan peice the won in semis: Mr. Big? We say thme in our 2nd round, and beat them on one judges ballot. While they were pretty good, I didn't think that they were THAT phenomenal. Mabye it was because we were in a friggen closet (quite litteraly).

[4n6Friz]

The Logan piece I was refering to was The Sercet Life of Walter Mitty... both ofthem were very very good tho... excellently done... but not enough for finals... either... just movement wasnt going to get people into finals this year... more was needed... clearly :wink:

[dmcordon9]

I agree with you Friz. Perhaps Logan's duo did rely too heavily on tech. I was very upset that they weren't in finals and then after some consideration I could see why a judge might not like them that much. I was just using them as an example earlier to illustrate what good tech and blocking is.

[Jesus]

no...not that liberally...we wore dress pants, dress shirt and a tie....

most of the time, since it was hot and humid as ****...and my partner was doing 2 events in at the same time...we rolled up our sleaves and unbuttoned the top button. We didnt "match" or anything...when teams match it pisses me off.
and o no...i dont think we deserved first in all of our rounds or anything...but we **** well didnt deserve the scores we got in most rounds... we should have broke at least once. We've done well at invites and stuff...i just get pissed off sometimes

[chrispac]

i disagree with u logan bashers...

logan's specialty is high blocking/tech and is VERY VERY UNIQUE AND CREATIVE... it sets them apart from most duos with crappy blocking or just plain dramatic acting.. maybe they do a lot of tech but theyre the team that once you see them perform you can say "THATS LOGAN... THEY ARE HARDCORE" i realyl wish logan made it to finals.. their are no other teams that can block/tech like them. of course strongly acted powerful duos would easily beat out fancy technical stuff, but logan is so crative in all their things,, the movement, environment, interaction, they make up stuff none other would think of.

[Jesus]

yeah...i think they were way better than making toast ::coughcough::CRAP::coughcough::

[the durango kid]

Clarification. Logan was very creatvie and technical, but that doesn't mean I think they were the seventh best in the nation. Their acting was marginal, and that I think is THE staple of duo,

[Master of Noogies]

I will agree that my schools style of duo is not like the others out there on the national circute. And not of all our duos rely on tech. Remember Home from 02' or Jack N' Jelly from 99'( if you saw duo finals in 99), These two duos did not rely on tech. Thank you to the people who appreciate the work we do. I thought making toast pretty good and thought the one in the red dress was kinda cute too, but that is a different story.

[4n6Friz]

First of all... Home deserved to win last year... I will say that a million times... they were AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!! Their acting was great, the cutting was great... adn the movement was soooo amazing! And like I said before... my duo partner and I have worshiped the other Logan Duo since the first time we saw them finals three years ago doing the Wiz... WOOWOWOWOWOWOW... . there is nothing else I can say... they are amaizng... and believe me, when i saw them in a top 30 round this year I really wanted them to make finals bc of the dissapointment from the year b4 and bc they were amazing... but there was just something about it taht made me... I said it to my partner in the top 30 round... they will make semis but not finals... there jsut wasnt enough there to get them there... adn there were other pieces that clearly could rank better... adn its not bc htey lack ne talent... they are amzing... its just the trend is changing... that no matter how creative you get with blocking... its gonna be characterization and story that keep you up... thats all! :lol:

movement wasnt going to get people into finals this year... more was needed... clearly :wink:

Yes, Wrong for Each Other took NFLs, but it should be noted that 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place were all flashy tech pieces. Many people I talked to liked everything EXCEPT the dramatic moments in the flight attendant piece. The Finley and Schaefer piece was memorable for its innovative pictures (you just KNOW people are going to copy that bird thing for years). The Kindergaten duo mas memorable for the clever physical gimmicks, bugs and such (which is the style Kanellis is known for in HI). Movement, in fact, did get all three of these pieces into finals in my opinion.

Also, I find it odd that Wrong for Each Other won over the support of the masses when very few of y'all have mentioned Making Toast or Inside Al... these took 6th and 5th respectively and relied on character and substance rather than movement.

So, I think that this year proved that a low-tech duo CAN win in duo--- but evidently techy flashy pieces that are done well are still very popular.

[4n6Friz]

I agree with you... the point i was trying make is that just tech wont do it... it has to be different and creative. and have distinct relatale characters... the characterization and not the movement is what made that round great... you know! The wiz kids are amazing... but you cant deny that their piece relied on movement... not the characters... you know.. thats all! :lol:

[KiwiStrawberry]

I don't think it can realky be predicted which will prevail: drama or comedy/high tech or good acting. The final round of nationals proved this. Just as most of you have said, there were techy pieces, strong characterization and acting, and dramatic pieces in the final round (all of which I think deserved to be there) and as for the results, let's not forget that they are cumulative, so the outcome depended on the different competition, audiances, and atmospheres of the break rounds. And even though I absolutely loved Wrong for Each Other, a lot of you are saying that good acting and stuff should win, etc. etc. But the category isn't called duo Acting...it's INTERPRETATION. So in some cases I think the acting has to take a back seat to the tech and blocking in order to give a good interpretation of the piece (it totally depends on the piece). whew! ok, I'm done :)

[KiwiStrawberry]

I don't think it can realky be predicted which will prevail: drama or comedy/high tech or good acting. The final round of nationals proved this. Just as most of you have said, there were techy pieces, strong characterization and acting, and dramatic pieces in the final round (all of which I think deserved to be there) and as for the results, let's not forget that they are cumulative, so the outcome depended on the different competition, audiances, and atmospheres of the break rounds. And even though I absolutely loved Wrong for Each Other, a lot of you are saying that good acting and stuff should win, etc. etc. But the category isn't called duo Acting...it's INTERPRETATION. So in some cases I think the acting has to take a back seat to the tech and blocking in order to give a good interpretation of the piece (it totally depends on the piece). whew! ok, I'm done :)

[4n6Friz]

But the category isn't called duo Acting...it's INTERPRETATION. So in some cases I think the acting has to take a back seat to the tech and blocking in order to give a good interpretation of the piece (it totally depends on the piece).

WOW.... I think we have the same brain or something.... I entirely agree... what else can i say! :P

[karma]

what makes you assume that tech and blocking are necessary for it to be an interpretation? isnt the whole concept of an "interpretation" that you should be able to express it in any way you choose and not be tied down to some pre-concieved notion of what a duo 'should' look like? straight acting is just as much someone's interpretation of lit as crazy tech is (at least in my opinion :D ) .

[KiwiStrawberry]

[quote="karma"]the whole concept of an "interpretation" that you should be able to express it in any way you choose and not be tied down to some pre-concieved notion of what a duo 'should' look like?

You bring up a good point and I definately agree...that's why I don't think we can predict what can, should, or will do the best next year. The duos just have to be original, creative, entertaining, and extremely well done and they'll do well.

[4n6Friz]

Straight acting can be an interpation... but i think thats what separates speech from theater...ok to act : "To behave like or pose as; impersonate" to interpret : "A performer's distinctive personal version of a song, dance, piece of music, or role; a rendering." ... interpretation is the ablity to show the audience what you are trying to say with just a ten minute cutting and not acting it out literally... you know... you cant even look at each other... that alone makes it interp... but there has to be something more than just a scene or just a bunch of fancy tech... i think a nice combo of acting skills and some cleaver foot work make the best duos... inside al (the one that took 5th this year at nfl's) had that really great combo... the movement told the story as much as their words... i dont know that wrong for each other did that as much... they created some cool pictures but to me it relied a bit TOO much on acting... they became these characters... assumed their personalities, but didnt really go beyond... believe me it was amazing, and in no way am i trying to discredit their work and winnings... i just personally think that they seemed like two characters on a stage... they didnt create a world or picture or what it is they thought their piece was about... and thats just me! but i do agree that you can never decide what will do well... i just get the feeling that drama will do better htis season... there will be more dramas... and less abridges and waht not just bc i think its become clear that people are sick of it now... in a few years... that sorta stuff will be welcome again... you just gotta give it a break for awhile!

[chrispac]

What do you think about TOTALLY COMMICAL LAUGHING UR ARSE OFF FUNNY funny extremely funny the whole duo is based on funnyness and EXTREMELY good blocking, clever jokes, even more cool blocking, and it looks like a fat circus all put in 10 minutes with two people and you know they worked hard on it.

i respect those duos alot

ie (3 little pigs from logan, captain underpants from leland)

sound of silence from leland OOOOO HSOOO GOOD ACTING BLALB ALBALBLABLA yeah sure the script was really sad n stuff, but who cares i could get the same effect from reading the script i dont need them to act it for me

[dmcordon9]

As I've said before, it doesn't matter what kind of duo you perform, just as long as you do it well. You can be funny with a lot of tech, just do it well. You can be really dramatic, just do it well. Some people say that perhaps duo should be seperated into humorous and dramatic, but I don't think so. I've judged lot of duo rounds in my day and it is often easier to see which duo is better, whether it be dramatic or not. I've said this a thousand times. No matter what type of duo you do, do it well.

[KiwiStrawberry]

dito :wink:

[4n6Friz]

I will agree... have fun while doing it too! I've done a wide range of duos... from chicago, THE MUSICAL to a Labute piece.... and as long as you have fun and put effort into it... the results really dont matter... BUT there still remains that difference between interp adn acting... I say way to go to those duos who are crazy and have enough energy to get through 10 minutes of craziness adn do it round after round... ive been one of those... i just find that it isnt as entertaining ne more... I believe in any good stage performace as in any interpretive performance... the performers need a purpose and a message... if its just 10 minutes of fancy foot work... i dont think it means as much to the judges... you have the tech AND a point... a purpose, all the props to you! Thats just metho. :wink:

[Master of Noogies]

I agree.

[chrispac]

halloween kille rhow come i never see you post around anymore. 40% of my posts praise logan. :lol:

[iedotorg]

Cool blocking is what makes duo one of the best forensic events, but it should never overshadow the real performance. Too much of a good thing can bite you in the butt. If there's no heart in the piece, there's no connection.

Cheers.
Corey

[Master of Noogies]

halloween kille rhow come i never see you post around anymore. 40% of my posts praise logan. :lol: Well, I have been doing more importent things than going on this website. I'm done with forensics and have moved on to other things. So this site does not concern me much. Even though I would like to thank you for praising my school. If you respect us, then we respect you. I use to be on IE.org and F.O 24/7, but now it's not like that. I'll check out these boards from time to time. Besides, I graduated anyway. Some people are glad to see me go if you know what I mean,lol. I hope everyone enjoys the time you have left in your forensics careers. I miss it already :x :oops:

[Jesus]

where are u going to college?

[Master of Noogies]

I'm going to Chabot College, then heading off to a UC.