Hurricane Katrina :-(

[IamTHATnerd]

Hey guys, I know this doesnt effect a lot of people on here, maybe the Florida kids, but its really effecting us right now. Katrina is the largest, strongest hurricane the Gulf coast has seen in over 50 years. New Orleans is deserted right now, and because of its position EXTREMELY under sea level, it is quite possible that New Orleans will be simple destroyed. My family and I, who live in Lafayette, LA, have boarded up our house and are heading to Houston. Im just posting this to ask you all to keep us in your prayers and thoughts. You may not understand the strength and danger we are currently in, but when I say this may be the worst natural disaster in recent history, i mean it. Again, please keep all of Louisiana in your thoughts, and ill report back when i get an internet connection. Thanks guys, talk to you later.

[Chewie]

You'll be in our thoughts. Good luck and God bless.

[Cinderella]

I understand, I just left Florida for college....so my thoughts and prayers are way ahead of you...

[Nocturne]

My prayers are with you.

I am supposted to visit New Orleans for Mardis Gras, too... :?

[Ryan]

If the storm has a direct hit on New Orleans, there will not be a Mardi Gras potentially ever again. They are projecting that the city, in a direct shot, would be 20-30ft underwater with the water unable to move anywhere. I've definitely been watching the storm a lot since I'm in Tallahassee and the projections about 2 days ago had the storm coming straight at us. You and the 1 million people about to become homeless are in my prayers.

[IamTHATnerd]

youre absolutely right ryan. like i told chew earlier, we may have a new lake/underwater city in louisiana. 30 feet of new orleans underwater. and it wont be like other floods, it will stay there, it wont leave. weeks possibly of buildings sitting under water. it all depends on how the citys pump systems can work, but theyve never been tested like this so they dont know. we'll see tuesday how bad it is. God, just the thought of one of the most beautiful and historical cities in the world not being there tomorrow is mind boggling. millions of people will have no home, and not even that, they wont even have a hometown to go back to. God this is disastrous. Thankyou for your thoughts and prayers, ill keep you guys updated as soon as i get anything. im in houston now so im fine.

[jman255]

My uncle is the one of the business heads of the big huge hospital there, and he has to stay in N.O. to make sure everything stays safe.

The superdome is holding 30k at the moment, and last I heard 100k were still left.

Houston...What a good city ;-)

[IamTHATnerd]

30k in the superdome is correct, however, 30,000 people in an enclosed area that has no backup generator!! idiots, the superdome has no backup generator so 30,000 hot, sweaty, smelly bodies will be in one very very dark place together. yea, safe haven my ***.

[Ryan]

They are predicting that if there is a direct hit to New Orleans, approx. 44,000 people would die. It is really possible that more could since so many have stuck around thinking that this storm is just being blown out of proportion. On a related note, my parents just got their power back after getting a direct hit from Katrina when she hit Ft. Lauderdale; finished out at 66 hours with no electricity.

[IamTHATnerd]

if you dont understand the severity of this, or if you wanna learn more, read this.

This article was posted 5 years ago:

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2000/wnoflood.htm

[jman255]

I'm pretty sure that they brought emergency back-up generators into the Superdome.

[ria]

wow, i feel way out of the loop. i've been without a t.v. or newspaper for a week. i knew this hurricane was coming, but i didn't know it was supposed to be this huge. that's really crappy. i'll be praying for all the people affected by it.

[Ryan]

New Orleans looks like it may have gotten lucky here.

[IamTHATnerd]

not quite ryan, theres been some reports of 12' of water in surrounding cities. old wooden buildings collapsing, apartment complexes collapsing with people inside. no word yet from dead center in new orleans. water is still coming over the levee's

[jman255]

not quite ryan, theres been some reports of 12' of water in surrounding cities. old wooden buildings collapsing, apartment complexes collapsing with people inside. no word yet from dead center in new orleans. water is still coming over the levee's12' is always better than 20'-30'

N.O. got lucky considering what they were expecting. Mississippi got unlucky considering what they were expecting.

[Chewie]

Okay, but let's not forget that N.O. is FUBAR'd. It's screwed, hard. THE SUPERDOME HAS HOLES IN IT.

Also, Stephen, it looks like Lafayette came out of it pretty okay, right?

[IamTHATnerd]

yes, we came out of it okay. im home, and really nothing happened here. wind and rain but nothin crazy.

i understand that new orleans didnt get it as bad as they expected, but i cant consider 44,000 homes completely submerged underwater as lucky, especially when theyre some of my friends homes. when reports of bodies floating in the water down bourbon street come across the radio, i cant consider that lucky. 300 people stranded on rooftops, toxic water flooding the city, and millions . . . MILLIONS of people with no home left, i cant consider any of that lucky.

sorry if im coming off rude, but this is very VERY close to home, and i just cant ever imagine using the word "lucky" to ever describe this hurricane.

[Chewie]

No one's going to accuse you of being crass in this situation.

[IamTHATnerd]

Well guys, we thought the worst was done, but this morning 2 levee's broke in New Orleans causing the water level to rise to 25+ feet. Its literally becoming an underwater city. Where there was no water before, its waist deep now. Its gotten much worse now, and who knows how long it will take to get things in order. Thousands of people are still waiting to be rescued from rooftops and attics. The death toll is going to rise dramatically now, to the point where dead bodies are being pushed to the side and disregarded. Its a sad day for us here, very very somber. This is the worst natural disaster this country has possibly ever seen. Please keep us in your prayers guys. Ill keep you updated as i get more information.

[Cinderella]

I really appreciate the updates, Stephen, what they've been showing on the news here has been rather...piecey. Best wishes.

[IamTHATnerd]

Well guys, not too much left to report. A little more than 80% of New Orleans is under water, and its going to rise even more as more levee's break. The problems people are discussing are 1) toxic water due to dead bodies, animal carcases, sewage lines busted, and chemicals all mixed together. this also lends for a huge threat of disease 2) water damage to absolutely everything. whether or not houses and buildings can be salvaged or if theyll just have to be destroyed. 3) gas prices. gas production has halted due to offshore wells being destroyed and refineries being flooded. were looking at $3/gallon or more for gasoline for quite a while.


Its an eery feeling all over Louisiana. News is on every TV and radio station. There are relief funds being brought together in every store and street corner. City convention centers and sports centers being filled by millions of refugee's.

Just to put it into perspective, imagine every single thing you have besides the clothes youre wearing right now, taken away. NOTHING left. No money even in the bank. Every single thing you own, gone. This is how MILLIONS of people are being left after this. The government cant just write this off, its too massive. The entire country will feel the repercussions from this. I honestly just cant explain how we're all feeling right now.

[ria]

ouch. i'm still praying.

[Chewie]

This just seems unreal, like a horrible, horrible movie.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Nightfall and rising violence threatened to further disrupt relief efforts Thursday in New Orleans as authorities rescued residents still trapped in the flooded city and evacuated thousands of others living among corpses and human waste.

The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael Brown, said his agency was attempting to work "under conditions of urban warfare."

From the roof of a police station downtown late Thursday, groups of officers armed with rifles could be seen venturing out into the streets, while helicopters buzzed overhead and a shopping mall burned in the distance.

Police warned a CNN crew to stay off the streets because of escalating danger, and cautioned others about attempted shootings and rapes by groups of young men.

"This is a desperate SOS," New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said in a statement Thursday afternoon, with thousands of people stranded at the city's convention center with no food, water or electricity -- and fading hope.

Residents expressed growing frustration with the disorder evident on the streets, raising questions about the coordination and timeliness of relief efforts.

Video from the convention center showed a group chanting "we want help, we want help," as mothers tried to console their tired and hungry children. (See video on the desperate conditions -- 4:36 )

Government officials insisted they were putting forth their best efforts and pleaded for patience, saying further help was on the way.

One displaced resident at the Louisiana Superdome, however, issued a warning to authorities who may be headed to the stadium, where up to 30,000 people had sought refuge after Monday's hurricane and now await evacuation to Texas by bus.

"Please don't send the National Guard," he said. "Send someone with a bullhorn outside the place that can talk to these people first."

He described scenes of lawlessness and desperation, with people simply dragging corpses into corners.

"They have quite a few people running around here with guns," he said. "You got these young teenage boys running around up here raping these girls."

Elsewhere, groups of armed men wandered the streets, buildings smoldered and people picked through stores for what they could find.

Charity Hospital, one of several facilities attempting to evacuate patients, was forced to halt the effort

The city is "out of resources at the convention center and doesn't anticipate enough buses," the mayor said in his statement.

CNN's Chris Lawrence described "many, many" bodies, inside and outside the facility on New Orleans' Riverwalk.

"There are multiple people dying at the convention center," Lawrence said. "There was an old woman, dead in a wheelchair with a blanket draped over her, pushed up against a wall. Horrible, horrible conditions.

"We saw a man who went into a seizure, literally dying right in front of us."

Nagin said that "the convention center is unsanitary and unsafe and we are running out of supplies for [15,000 to 20,000] people."

He said the city would allow people to march up the Crescent City Connection to the Westbank Expressway in an effort to find help.

People were "being forced to live like animals," Lawrence said, surrounded by piles of trash and feces.

He said thousands of people were just lying on the ground outside the building -- many old, or sick, or caring for infants and small children.

More people were arriving at the center, walking south along Canal Street. The route north to the Superdome is blocked by chest-deep water.

The convention center was used as a secondary shelter when the Louisiana Superdome was overwhelmed.

Food drops began Thursday afternoon at the convention center, as rain also began falling.

A National Guard helicopter delivered MREs -- meals ready to eat -- and bottles of water. The amounts in the first few drops, however, were far short of enough for everyone.

State officials believe Katrina and its aftermath killed "thousands" of people in New Orleans and surrounding parishes, but no official count had been compiled, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said Thursday.

Brown said those who ignored the city's mandatory evacuation order bore some responsibility.

"I think the death toll may go into the thousands and, unfortunately, that's going to be attributable a lot to people who did not heed the advance warnings," Michael Brown told CNN.
Evacuation points swamped with people

A Louisiana National Guard official told CNN Thursday morning that between 50,000 and 60,000 people had converged at evacuation points near the Superdome hoping to get on one of the buses out of town.

"It's no longer just evacuees from the Superdome, as citizens who were holed up in high-rise office buildings and hotels saw buses moving into the dome, they realized this is an evacuation point," Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard said. (Watch report on violence delaying evacuation -- 1:51)

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff denied reports that rescue efforts in New Orleans had been halted for security reasons Thursday, saying those operations "are continuing in full force."

"We are going to continue to increase the tempo of that program until we've cleared people out of the Superdome and we've cleared people out of New Orleans," he said.

Chertoff said that the Coast Guard has rescued about 3,000 people from flooded areas in New Orleans and the surrounding parishes.

Nagin ordered his police force to leave search-and-rescue operations to the Coast Guard and concentrate on establishing order.

But officers told CNN they lacked manpower and steady communications to properly do their jobs -- and that they needed help to prevent the widespread looting and violence now prevalent in the city.

A police officer working in downtown New Orleans said police were siphoning gas from abandoned vehicles in an effort to keep their squad cars running.

The officer said police are "on their own" for food and water, scrounging up what they can from anybody who is generous enough to give them some -- and that they have no communication whatsoever. Police also told CNN they were removing ammunition from looted gunshops in an effort to get it off the streets.

Chertoff said that 4,200 National Guard military police would be deployed in New Orleans over the next three days, nearly quadrupling the overall law enforcement presence there.

Blanco said Thursday she has requested the mobilization of 40,000 National Guard troops to restore order and assist in relief efforts.
Power out; gas prices rising

The breadth of the brutality of Hurricane Katrina became clearer as more death toll figures began to filter in from Mississippi's coastal region.

Authorities said at least 185 people died in Monday's Category 4 storm.

Katrina knocked out electricity for more than 2.3 million people in Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama and Florida.

Meanwhile, the storm's effect on oil supplies and gas prices spread nationwide, prompting the White House to tap the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

Two major suppliers of gasoline to the Eastern Seaboard of the United States resumed partial service Thursday.

The news came as gasoline prices surged to more than $3 a gallon in some parts of the country due to outages and bottlenecks in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. (Full story)

The flow of water into New Orleans from Lake Pontchartrain has abated, Army Corps of Engineers officials said. But engineers won't begin trying to pump out the water until the breaches are plugged. (Recovery efforts)

The Army Corps of Engineers is attempting to plug a 300-foot breach in the Industrial Canal, a 500-foot breach in the 17th Street Canal and two smaller breaches in the London Avenue Canal.

[IamTHATnerd]

yea chew, and thats exactly whats going on. people looting all over new orleans, breaking into businesses and stores stealing whatever they can get their hands on. were housing refugee's here in lafayette in our sports arena, the Cajundome, and girls were raped last night, people doing drugs in bathrooms. Dead bodies are just being piled up and pushed to the side. Its very surreal here man, it really hasnt hit any of us yet. Im actually sick and tired of hearing about it. People here are going out and buying guns and carrying them with theme everywhere. Its not safe to go get gas or go to the store at night for fear of being held up. They didnt anticipate how the overflow of people would effect surrounding cities, and its becoming extremely difficult for us to deal with it all. Everybody is pretty much at a loss for what to do. We just have to wait it out and see what comes along. Thanks for your support guys, and keep us in your thoughts and prayers. Were not out of this yet, not by a long shot.

[Ryan]

You have gas there?! Just east on I-10 over here in Tallahassee, gas is about to become nonexistant. I was just by WalMart and guys are buying as many gas jugs as possible so that they can stock up. Most stations in town aren't selling gas and the couple that still are, are now up to $3.28+. I'm glad I live on campus and don't drive anymore.

[Chewie]

From Hotlanta, where two major pipelines busted:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.gas.prices/vert.katrina.gas.prices.ap.jpg (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.gas.prices/index.html)

[IamTHATnerd]

yea, gas has shot up over $3.00 here. Atlanta is getting hit hard with that, like in Chews picture. And ya know what? Its not going down any time soon. Sucks for those stupid soccer moms driving their huge *** H2's and Excursions with 80 gallon tanks that empties in 30 mins. I drive a Honda Element (yes a box and i love her) and gas is killing me. I cant imagine people with engines any larger than a 4 cyl. Its rediculous, and like i said earlier in this thread, the nation doesnt realize how badly this hurricane is going to effect the entire country. Laura Bush just landed here in lafayette and is going to the Cajundome to speak with refugee's and volunteers. George Bush is in New Orleans right now surveying the wreckage. 300 National Guardsmen from Arkansas, freshly back from Iraq, just arrived in New Orleans to get things back in order. Theyre also under strict orders from our governor to "shoot to kill". Its getting pretty **** crazy here, and like i said, we really dont know how to deal with it all.

[Ryan]

I just walked down a street here and noticed employees of two different gas stations removing the prices entirely from their big signs. Two more days and we won't have gas here at all.

[Chewie]

yea, gas has shot up over $3.00 here.

Just FYI, it's about the same up here, too. I just bought gas for $3.19.

[theatrix04]

http://www.nflonline.org/uploads/Main/LetterfromtheEditor.pdf

Donations can be made to assist NFL Chapters hit by Katrina....

[IamTHATnerd]

hey theatrix, thanks so much for that. All of Louisiana is one NFL district, so if you would like to make a donation, i can give you the address to send it directly to our NFL chair. Any donation would be greatly appreciated. The Mississippi one im not sure about, but im sure the link theatrix put would be sufficient.

Again, if you would like to make donations to the Louisiana NFL district, please PM me or AIM me and i will get back to you with the direct address to our district chair. Donations are needed immediately, and mail time from you, to the national headquarters, then down here would be too long.

Donations may include:

monetary donations
non perishable foods
diapers (in great need)
bottles of water
baby food
blankets, pillows, linens
clothes (especially L, XL, XXL)
anything you think would help, ANYTHING

Any donations would be greatly appreciated and ill be sure its known that it comes from Forensicsonline. Thanks again.

[ria]

i've been lucky and only had to pay 3.08 thus far for gas. but on my way back to school yesterday, i saw a couple of places selling it for 2.87 still. that was weird.

[Chewie]

Gas prices have most likely peaked, at least in relation to the Katrina disaster. Prices may not go a whole lot lower than they are now, though.

[IamTHATnerd]

Alright guys, Im sorry but i have to rant about this. Im just getting entirely too pissed off.

QUIT PULLING THE RACE CARD AND SCREAMING DISCRIMINATION!!!!

God, these ****ing people who swear that the federal government didnt act as fast as they should have ONLY because the majority of the people left behind were black. Yes, it was all a conspiracy to help lower the black population. DAMMIT! We told everybody to get the **** out and you didnt listen! Is it our fault that you thought you could stay there and live out the worst natural disaster in the nations history? NO! And ya know what? You werent the only ones left! You were sitting in the Superdome right alongside whites, asians, hispanics, doctors, businessman, and bums. Im sorry that statistics show that the majority of the lower-class in New Orleans is black and that you didnt have a car or money for a cab or bus to get out. Im sorry for that, but dont you dare complain that all of it was done simply because youre black. Yes, the KKK stirred a category 5 hurricane in the gulf and headed it straight for you just to get rid of you. Atleast youre alive, atleast you have your family, thousands were not that lucky. So quit *****ing and complaining about "the white man is holding us down" and get on your knees and thank God youre still alive.

OH! And another thing!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050907/ap_on_re_us/katrina_refugees__hk4

ref·u·gee - One who flees in search of refuge
DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT BEING BLACK?! NO!

[Ryan]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on some levels there. Yes there was an evacuation order placed out for everyone. And yes you did mention that they had no way to get out. But did the local government expect anything less? Why didn't the major of New Orleans commission to have the 400 school buses now under water or the 400 city buses now unavailable to start taking the residents of the poorest areas out of the city? One trip before the storm hit would have cut the number needing to be saved by 1/5 to 2/5, as well as saving possibly well over a thousand lives.

And also, the race issue, while not a full out conspiracy or order led by the KKK, is relevant and apparent in this situation more than ever. Here is one of the strongest pieces of evidence of such that I've seen so far.

http://msgboard.snopes.com/photos/katrina/graphics/looting.jpg

The Associated Press has separately captioned two photos of looters in the wake of Katrina. The photo of a black man refers to his "looting," and the photo of a white pair refers to their "finding." Why did this happen?

[OverMyHead]

Be reasonable. If this happened in a predominately white neighborhood, help would have been there faster. And don't just excuse the fact that they really had no way to get out. How do you explain the hotel clientelle getting a bus before those superdome people got one, forcing them to stay another night? It isn't fair and it isn't right. IamTHATnerd, this has to be a really ****ty time for you right now, and I'm sorry for that, but don't blind yourself with rage. This disaster has revealed what is, in my mind, this nation's biggest flaw.

[IamTHATnerd]

Ryan,

The reason those people werent brought out by bus is because there wasnt enough time. A mandatory evacuation was ordered on sunday, the hurricane hit early monday morning. Youre telling me that youre gonna get 400 buses into the housing projects of new orleans, through all the evacuation traffic, and give these people time to load up and go? No, it doesnt work that way. Have you ever been in new orleans? one car couldnt get to the projects, let alone 400 buses. We were unprepared, yes. But theres no way you can prepare for such a thing like this.

OverMyHead,

Predominantly white neighborhood??? Dude this wasnt a neighborhood! It was one of the largest cities in the country! The ENTIRE thing was destroyed! From the city projects all the way uptown to Bette Midlers house!! They were all destroyed! It doesnt matter what the ratio of white to black is, the federal government didnt act quickly enough, period. Not because there were black people there.

And the hotel? Well maybe because hotel clientelle can fit into one, maybe two buses. The Superdome needed HUNDREDS!!! They used what they had, when they had it. They got the people in the Superdome out when they had the number of buses they needed. Can you imagine if a single bus pulled up in front of the superdome and said "Get on!"??? There wouldve been no bus!!!

Sorry guys, i cant see it from your side, atleast not with these arguments.

[Chewie]

Obviously, if you're black, you're a criminal. White people deserve food, and black folks have to commit crimes to obtain it.

[OverMyHead]

Predominantly white neighborhood??? Dude this wasnt a neighborhood! It was one of the largest cities in the country!

What I meant was that the lower class neighborhoods were the ones with the greatest numbers of people left in them. I'm sure you know that poverty is a large problem in New Orleans. These people didn't have a ****in chance. They couldn't board the house up and pack up the suburban for dry land. THEY WERE STUCK AND THEY WERE ****ED! And don't tell me that a group of clean, healthy business people couldn't wait another day while there were people who were dying and sitting in **** who hadn't even changed underwear in five days that waited it out another night. And by the way, Georgie Dee didn't waste a minute coming to Jeb's aid. I wonder what tax bracket most of the Floridians were in?

[IamTHATnerd]

Yes, i understand the lower class were the majority of who was left and i know they didnt have a chance, but the fact of the matter is, if this sucker hit anywhere else in the country, the lower class would be the ones left too. and, unfortunately, blacks make up a good number of the lower class in this country. we cant help that.

Second, there were no clean, healthy business people dude, there were thousands of dirty, hungry, human beings. You think the people in the Superdome had it the worst? **** no! The people in the high rise hotel that got all the windows blown out and were on the 5th floor and couldnt get any supplies up to. How about them? Nobody in that city had changed their underwear in 5 days, everybody, every single person was living in ****. I believer less than 5 people out of 30,000 died in the superdome, and they were due to heart attack and other related medical illnesses, not due to starvation. The reason they were bused to houston was because the superdome was deamed unsafe, not because they were dieing.

Bush got to Florida much quicker because, well, lets see, FLORIDA WASNT 80% UNDER WATER!! Yea, Florida got it 1/10 as bad as we did. Its not a matter of tax brackets, its a matter of a bad hurricane hit in florida compared to the countries worst natural disaster hitting here.

[Ryan]

First of all, yes the search and rescue personel were victims of bureaucracy that postponed their prompt response to New Orleans. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, "Not long after some 1,000 firefighters sat down for eight hours of training, the whispering began: "What are we doing here?"

As New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin pleaded on national television for firefighters - his own are exhausted after working around the clock for a week - a battalion of highly trained men and women sat idle Sunday in a muggy Sheraton Hotel conference room in Atlanta. . . .

The firefighters, several of whom are from Utah, were told to bring backpacks, sleeping bags, first-aid kits and Meals Ready to Eat. They were told to prepare for "austere conditions." Many of them came with awkward fire gear and expected to wade in floodwaters, sift through rubble and save lives.

"They've got people here who are search-and-rescue certified, paramedics, haz-mat certified," said a Texas firefighter. "We're sitting in here having a sexual-harassment class while there are still [victims] in Louisiana who haven't been contacted yet."

Another concern was how the police department dissolved shortly after the hurricane hit, thereby leading to looting, raping, and killing. This was mainly caused by the failure of the police radio system. According to Federal Computer Week, "The police department’s citywide 800 MHz radio system functioned well during and immediately after the hurricane hit New Orleans, but since then natural gas service to the prime downtown transmitter site was disrupted and the generator was out. Transmitter sites for the police radio system are also underwater with the rising water and are now disabled.

Owners of the sites that housed police radio transmitters would not allow installation of liquefied petroleum gas tanks as a backup to piped gas, meaning generators did not have any fuel when the main lines were cut.

Radio repair technicians attempting to enter the city were turned away by the state police, even though they had letters from the city police authorizing their access."

Regarding the why didn't they get buses into the innercity concern from earlier... they didn't try anything! While the evacuation order came out a day before, they still knew it was headed to New Orleans for a good 3 days beforehand. Even if they sent a fleet of buses to streets nearby that could handle the size of the vehicles, that would have made a substantial difference. It is just that they had NOTHING (nothing available and nothing planned in case of this happening).

[IamTHATnerd]

Im not saying the government is in the wrong, i know they didnt respond fast enough. But its not because of a racial issue, its because our government is stupid.

And if they evacuated the housing projects everytime they projected a hurricane to hit new orleans, it would be ridiculous. Yes, they didnt plan it well enough, i know. But the fact of the matter is, those people didnt get out because of poor government planning, not because theyre black.

Our government may be slow and unprepared, but theyre not trying to rid the country of blacks. Sorry, theyre just not.

[OverMyHead]

It's not that they want to rid black people from the country. That's not what I'm getting at at all. Racism today really isn't obviuos KKK hate crimes; it's subtle things. Indirrect racism. You should see the movie Crash. It displays racism today in a horribly true way. I'm not saying Bush sat in the Oval Office and said "Finally I can lower the minority population!" He just decided that it wasn't that bad that we needed to get people there right away. It isn't as much racism as it is classism.

I think both of us just have to agree to disagree on this. We are both set in our view of the situation. We can agree upon the fact that our government messed up and that all we can do now is help out in any way we can.

[IamTHATnerd]

agree to disagree, sounds like a plan.


BTW, Crash is an incredible movie and everybody should see it. fantastic.

[Chewie]

Just to get this straight, we're arguing about whether the slow government response was a result of classism vs. idiocy, right?

In a shock to myself, I'm not sure if I have an opinion one way or the other. It seems everyone was aware of the hurricane and what was going to happen a few days beforehand, but nothing was done in the first possible hours in the immediate aftermath. Why? It seems ridiculous either way. I, personally, feel that there might not have been a the proper sense of urgency to those outside of the disaster in the first hours help could have been provided, but that's really nothing but personal insight.

It's very disappointing and upsetting either way.