"I beat that kid!"

[CGW]

so, what was your most frustrating moment when you saw the finalists at a big tournament and thought "I BEAT THAT KID!" I COULD HAVE BEEN UP THERE!" ?
surely we've all had them. I realized at NFL's this year that I had beaten two of the impromptu finalists at Stanford. one of my teammates said he'd beaten one of the Drama finalists in round earlier in the year (he was doing Duo at this tourney). Or maybe you lost head to head but won a tourney where they were competing...

so what made YOU think "gee... I guess that technically qualifies me to be third place at nationals" ;) ?

[Pulp Fictionist]

As far as I know, we beat 'I Love You, You're Perfect, Now Change" in a Pine Crest Prelim...hey, do rounds with multiple judges count if just one judge gives you a higher ranking than the Duo? If so, then we have a lot, lol. I can't think of any more right now, the only "big tournament" we went to was Pine Crest. And there was some other finalist we beat there, I think Stinky Cheese Man.

[Chewie]

Not frustrating for me, but the kid who got 3rd in FX this year (Andrew Green) didn't even win the MO state tourney (got 2nd). Must've been frustrating for Michael Headley, the kid that beat him.

[Jesus]

My most frustrating moment was, as most of you know, last year's duo finals.

After we qualified and all, three days before the tournament, my partner got a lifetime original movie. So i went to only compete in Prose, cuz he couldnt make it to nationals. When national finals rolled around, We had never seen 4 of the teams (Shel Silverstene, The Witches, Torch Song, Batboy) but the other two were from California. Every tournament we hit Infinate Ache at (Berkely, Stanford, Santa Clara, CA States) we beat them and the only tournament we hit "Having Our Say" at (Berkely), we beat them. I sat there clenching my fists thinking "we TOTTALLY could have been up there.

This year, iVE won tourniments/gotten ballots over 2 finalists and 2 semifinalists in HI...and thought during finals i could have been competitive...

DUO:
Got ballots over Drawer Boy, Feifer's People, and I Love You, You're Perfect, Now Change...I dont think we would have been competitive in finals though...

[jman255]

What is frustrating is possibly being the team that tied for 14th place but lost the tie breaker...

[tgjdlc]

I have two instances...one of myself, and one of my student (Dasy*)...
Remembering Slavery, she hit this is piece at Nat Quals...and he lost one round and 3 ballots throughout the whole tournament. The one judge in the 2nd prelim round gave her the win. And two judges in the final round gave her the win. (2 out of 5). But she lost by one point for the second place position. It was fun to here that he made it to finals, but disappointing too.

My Junior year, 2002-2003, Pierre Clark was the National Champion in DI...i hit him all year...(stanford, UOP, and another that i can't think about) and i beat him all year. Well, come nat quals i get the number one seed to go to nats. But a teacher with a heavy grudge didnt let me go to nats. I found out that he won, and having my teammates come back and tell me that i could have easily been in finals, i was crushed.

[Aelfric5578]

It's not quite the same thing, but I noticed that I had beaten a few Harvard semi-finalists in Oratory at local tournaments. Unfortunately, I couldn't go to Harvard because of a conflict. I think that I could have done well there had I gone.

[spanishgoose]

i wouldnt say that im frustrated with my "i beat that kid story" so much, but at nats i beat three of the fx finalists (troy, green, st george). i cant complain with my performance though

i think there's something to be said for "rising to the occassion" not hating on anyone in this thread, but typically the best performers rise and win the biggest rounds. so yea its cool to take a ballot from like a natalie sintek at podunk university prelims, but i think the best performer usually gets the last laugh. :D

[Pulp Fictionist]

Yea, very true, that's why I try to not get too hyped by getting a ballot or two. But no denying it is a cool feeling :D

[CGW]

Swodaem:

I absolutely agree... I don't mean for a second to indicate that these people are not that good... forensics is objective and the point of going through a hundred ballots at nationals is to see who appeals most to the widest variety of judges

the point of this thread is that, since flukes like that happen every once in a while, I wanted people to get a chance to share them, to revel in the moment when some jusde somewhere thought they were better than the national champion.

the very REASON those moments are so fun is because you know they are so absurd. this is the way my humorist teammate explained it to me when he inspired me to write this thread. at a cheyenne tournament, he pointed out that although he had lost to princeton armstrong in round, he had placed higher overall in the tournament... and "therefore, I'm going to start referring to myself as numebr two in the nation"

obviously it was tounge in cheek. please don't think this is an act of pretention. just a chance for everyone to share "I was so close" stories... they're fun, not angry.

;) besides, as miffed as I was about the impromptu finalists, I wouldn't have wanted to join them as I was an extemp finalist instead.

[CGW]

P.S Spencer:
I knew you'd have some story like that. you, like me I think, have a silghtly unorthodox style that people either really like or just can't quite buy into... I remember last year at nationals the joy of discovering that I had taken ballots of of two of the finalists in my prelims and octos, so I was pretty sure you'd have had the same experience.

that's the shame about forensics, the trick is finding a way to appeal to EVERYONE without being to generic. :(

on the other hand, I have no doubt it will be you standing in the finals circle, with some poor kid in colorado somewhere saying "I once beat him in orund at cherry creek... no FAIR! " ;)

[Abbey7]

I can totally account for the subject of this thread. I beat CHris Hunter "Zooman and the Sign" ,who was in DI finals at Nat's this year, many times!but as I always say.. it's not like I am any better than him, it's any given day with any given judges it's anybodys game![/b]

[sassafrassz]

I beat 3 of the 4 duos that Oregon quallifed to nats.. (2 from North, 2 from South) before AND after that tournament. Wierdo judges. Of the 3 NFL qualifiers who were at State - 2 didn't break to semis, 1 took first, and my partner and I placed 3rd. Dissapointing?.. a little. But I got to go to NFL anyways, and we had our 'revenge' at state.. :wink:

[Aelfric5578]

Come to think of it, almost every time I competed locally against Isaac of OO fame, judges would usually rank one of us first and the other last. A few times, I was first. At the CFL grand qualifier, in the same round, seeing the same performance from both of us, one judge gave me the one and him the five, and the other gave him the one and me the five.

[Theatreguy]

I beat Danny Charissimi once.... but that judge must have been mest up.... cause hes like the best ooer ever

[Frederick Dean]

Well all year I had competed in california with duo and h.I, when it came down to our state tournament I took duo instead of my h.i for obvious reasons. (I felt bad for my partner) Well the state champion ended up being someone who I beat throughout the entire year. . except for one tournament which was berkley. I was very dissapointed when I knew I could have taken that championship for the second time. But hey its over with now. . but AC did a great job.

[Jesus]

Not neccessarily though. I beat AC at every tournament (long beach, fullerton, MLK) up untill berkely...and i got 3rd and he got 1st. (but i did get the only 2 ballots that he didnt get ones on the whole tournament) So, you cant really say that you would've been the state champ--but there is a good possability. I mean, look at Jeff Snider--1st at SCU, 1st at MLK, 3rd at Stanford--didnt break at state. Chris lin--2nd at berkely--didnt break at states...so you never know....

[Frederick Dean]

Wait. . I thought Princeton got third chris lin got second and I got fourth. . so where do you fall in for the berkely finalists???

[Theatreguy]

??? HAHA

[Gars22]

I met Dan Rauch in the final round of an NJFL tournament. There were 3 judges and one judge put me ahead of him. Unfortunately, the other 2 judges were not on crack and realized that he is the best in the round. But hey, if I can get one judge to put me ahead of a potential national champion, I see it as quite an accomplishment.

[Jesus]

i got 3rd at state--he got 1st

[Frederick Dean]

Oh srry dude. . .I thought u meabt berkley. well srry if I came off a little sarcastic as well. But I think I have competed against you. I did the boys next door for duo and the la la awards for H.I But I think you'll probably remember me.

[CatMan]

The Write Stuff took 2nd in HI this year but what is interesting is he also took 2nd at his Nat quals -- he was beat at Nat quals by a girl from Eastview who dropped after Octas at Nationals....... she could say that she should be National HI Champ :lol:

[Jesus]

Oh srry dude. . .I thought u meabt berkley. well srry if I came off a little sarcastic as well. But I think I have competed against you. I did the boys next door for duo and the la la awards for H.I But I think you'll probably remember me.

yeah, im pretty sure we know eachother--i did Goosebumps for HI and Aliens for Lunch for DUO...we've been in like 4 final rounds together this year....

[Theatreguy]

Districts and nationals are 2 diffrent things... and with people getting ranks counted from more then just one round.... anything can happen... and she she wasnt in finals so i mean yea, if she was there then yea! okay im done

[CatMan]

Theatre Guy, I know, I made the HI comment in jest. The whole point of this thread is to discuss "what ifs."

i beat courtney otto once in impromptu.

[jdcongresscapt]

I beat Tarikh Campbell and Steve Erosa in a duo round.

[Aelfric5578]

I beat Tarikh Campbell and Steve Erosa in a duo round.
When did this happen?

[jdcongresscapt]

First tournament at Regis. Piraino and I got the 1, they got the 4. heeheehee

[TIEbreaker]

There were 3 semifinalists and 2 finalists at NFL Nationals from Texas in Duo and throughout the year and at state i beat all of them in Duet (we don't have duo in texas), but when nationals rolled around, our duet didn't transfer into a duo too well and we only ended up getting into the Top 30, and i thought to myself, "what if it was duet at nationals and not duo, we might've done a lot better". Oh well, most of them are friends of mine and i thought they did **** good.

[CGW]

lol... just for the record, JDcongresscapt... I actually have ended an extemp speech wiht the phrase "**** straight" before (close enough, eh?)... one of my favorite (but now useless) Ashcroft speeches!

don't worry, not to infringe on your record, just thought I'd point it out!

[jdcongresscapt]

Not to go off-topic, Mr. West, but in what context did you use that, particularly in an Ashcroft speech?
I used mine in response to "Are there too many stars on Broadway?"

[chrispac]

things I will never get over:

3rd at nat quals - (1st alternate to nats) losing to Bellarmine's Catch - 22, whom I've beaten at every league tournament, hit at berkeley quarters and beat, hit at state quals and beat him in every round (I ended up 1st and him 5th), and he ended up taking 1st place at nat quals. Then, second place , Captain Underpants and the Toilets, I've beaten every tournament (berkeley quarters as well, state quals where I got 1st he got 7th) placed second.

not breaking (out of prelims!) at states. will never get over that. ever...... sorry about being bitter

[CGW]

it's hard to explain, JD... my intro is about how I collect old episodes of shows like "Gunsmoke", and about how shows that look "campy" can tell us a lot about our etereotypes and opinions, with a different episode depending on what it is I'm trying to say...

once, I found myself in a round wiht a pair of college looking guys for judges, and I couldn't resist bringing back the texas-accent "**** straight, luke!" that I'd used in the intro and gotten a good laugh with.


needless to say, it was sort of a one itme thing, lol ;)

[Broskis09]

TODAY WAS THE FIRST TOURNAMENT OF THE YEAR!it was a real small tournament and wasnt that good.well i got first in HI, Joe (poonan) got 2nd, Jordan (jman255) got 3rd. and other people who i dont think are on fol.net. well thats not what im hear to say. alright Finals of duo...went in and raped and joe and jordan did the same it was down to us...everyone was hyping me up saying that we took the round (when i say everyone i mainly mean joe)and we go up and we got 3rd and these other freshman from our school took first and joe and jordan tood second but they really tied because they both got 1,2,3s in the round.soo yeah i was p.oed.

[jman255]

Yes, forensicators, you can make fun of us...We lost to freshman doing Jerry Finnigan's Sister...ha

Much love,
Jordan

[Cinderella]

OUCH!!! Now that's humiliating, however, it seems to happen a lot.

[Broskis09]

hey!
im a freshman...but those freshman were...ughh.
dont hate, forensicate!

[Pulp Fictionist]

OMG I am so sick of that piece, we hit like 3 trillion last year.

[jman255]

We can't really complain, though. We memorized/put the piece together in less than 3 hours between rounds one and two. The duet that won had been practicing for weeks...I guess they deserved to beat us.

[Cap'n Crunk]

I went straight ones in a final round with princeton armstrong he was kind of off that final round and it was my sophomore year (last year)...ah good times

[anditweptforme]

Not a huge deal, but at the DVC invitational my partner and I, in our first round, beat the team that eventually won. We ended up barely not breaking.

[TheModernEgg]

Kind of off-topic... Cap'n Crunk... are you by any chance Cary Shapiro (SP?) Just wondering... if so, I think I hit you last year at ASU in poetry quarters... yeh. And like 2 of 3 prelim rounds... in which you kicked me and my partner's asses. Yeh, so just wondering.




~Andy

[dolflynn]

In Cali State Duo finals last year, me and my partner took a 1, beating out Drawer Boy, Monkey, and Soul Solution but it wasn't so much of a "Omg we beat them we so should have been in that round" but more of a "WHOA HOW DID WE BEAT THEM??????" :)

[Forensicator]

last year, at the California State Tournament, was doing Expository... "Expos: The Musical" was the name... i was my valley champ, and i got first at UOP, and 3rd at Northridge, and did VERY well at every tournament i went to... Well, my first round at state, i get 1st place... the guy who won state was in that round, and i beat him at UOP... I BEAT THE GUY WHO WON STATE IN MY FIRST ROUND!!!!! i didnt even break to semi's... i was pissed off...

[trentscool88]

this is the way my humorist teammate explained it to me when he inspired me to write this thread. at a cheyenne tournament, he pointed out that although he had lost to princeton armstrong in round, he had placed higher overall in the tournament... and "therefore, I'm going to start referring to myself as numebr two in the nation"


Who told you this Colin? (it wasn't me --tho we have these type conversations all the time.....maybe it was me telling you about Andy Mitchell or something)


This is a good topic for me. Last year at Stanford I beat the girl who got first in HI (a Leland girl doing Footlight Frenzy) and the guy who got second (doing a Dr. Suess piece of some sort --something about hats) in round. I only made it to semi's though. I was bummed but glad at the same time.
And this year: all but, I think, 2 tournaments I've beaten every person who has placed higher than me in round or in another finals. But I have yet to place first at a tournament in HI. No matter how many times I go straight one's in prelims I still can't top people in finals.


Oh well, I'm not trying to get pitty or anything but I can clearly relate to this conversation.

Good topic, Colin.

oh, and at state. my Duo partner and I beat the team who took state in round. They ended up getting in the top 30 at Nationals. That was pretty cool.

[chelsea]

Okay, the thing is that you might beat someone who ends up placing higher than you, bt there are so many factors. First of all someone could just have a bad round/tournament. Then there is judges preference. Additionally, people are always working to perfect their pieces, constantly changing them based on what judges say. No one ever competes the exact same way, so you can't really complain about beating someone that does better overall.

[Chewie]

Right, I don't think anyone is saying "Hey, I am a better performer than this person because I beat them in a round." I think it's more "Hey, this kid really kicks *** and SOMEONE thought I was good enough to beat them."

[jman255]

We hit and beat multiple strong teams at Nationals last year...

[trentscool88]

Oh, I completely agree with everyone else here. I am greatful to beat some who is really good compition. I just don't like it when I beat someone time after time after time in round but not in finals (which --I think is understandable).

I like to take personal satifaction knowing that there was one or maybe two judges that thought I was better than that first place person or team. Its a good feeling knowing something like that.

It just goes to show how subjective Forensics is. On my team--theres me and two other people who have been in finals together, in HI, that have traded places a lot. It all depends on the tournament. Sometimes one of us will do better than the other. But we've all lost to one another and we've all beaten each other. Every weekend is different.


Which I guess brings me to my next question --what makes a person really good? Everyone has lost to someone else. I may go and win a large tournament but does that make me really good? I feel that anyone can get first any given Saturday.
Can we only prove someone is the best if they do something like Natile Sintek and take all one's in finals at Nationals?

~A friend of mine says that she feels its more important to have the popular vote among your competitors than actually winning. Is this a good thing to follow?

questions questions.

[trentscool88]

The Modern Egg --Cap'n Crunch is Devin Jackson from the same school at Cary. Close tho (except not really-since they look nothing alike -but how would you know that?)

[jman255]

Trent, I had a 3 year dry spell when it came to getting first place. I couldn't do it my Freshman, Sophmore, or Junior year. Come this year, however, I have won 4 times...It's tough when you can get 1's in prelims and semifinals, but can't get that 1 in finals...

[TheModernEgg]

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. For the first two years in my forensics career, I only broke to finals once, at a crappy tournament. But this year, I have to finals and recieved top 3 in my event(s) at every tournament but 2. My point is... ... ... ... what was my point?... oh yeah! work hard, it pays off big time.

oh and trentscool88, I didn't actually know who he was, just a semi-educated guess. It seemed like maybe Cary was a black guy in white guy's clothing, as his poetry for two years was by Marshal Mathers (Eminem). and his name being Cap 'n' Crunk, I just guessed.

I hope the black guy in white guy's clothing thing didn't offend anyone.

[trentscool88]

TheModernEgg --that was an understandable mistake (I didn't want to give off the impression that you SHOULD have known that or anything) and that was a very justified reason to think Cary was Cap'n' Crunch.

And about the whole "getting first place" thing--its not a big deal to me, but at this piont it just seems like a curse more than anything.

~this little side part is kinda off conversation.......oh well~

[Serena]

Last year at the NY State competition at Shenendahowa, my first round I beat the girl who went on to win in O.I. Tragically, I didn't break... but I was pretty psyched anyway, as it was my third tournament ever, and second competing in O.I. :-) I'm hoping to do well in D.I. at states and nationals this year. Anybody else going in D.I. from NY?

[xxLusciousZechxx]

I've beaten every competitor I've ever gone against.

That includes State and National finalists.

Mmhmm.

With my dick.

[koskikoskikoski]

So, yeah. This was the first year my (tragically small) high school opted to enter NFL districts--and we were up against stiff competition. And because our NFLs hit mid-State season, I was far from prepared..

I hit up the oratory, was barely off script. Tacky writing. Poor presentation. On and on... essentially, hated the speech I had.

And I beat, in prelims, the girl who took first, and beat out every other member of my semi in prelims... and I didn't even bother really trying in semis, because, hey, I'd gotten that far, right?

Eh. 2-4-1 prelims... and blew it away. That one still stings. But, hey, I've got Catholics for StuCon, which, unfortunately, I've heard is a joke.

[wasoe]

Of the people in the state creative final, I beat two of them in a round. I got into finals at that same tournament, while the guy that got 4th only made honor finals, and I got a better percentage total than the guy that got 1st at a later tournament.

[Meho]

going up against a cross town rival at nat quals, had never lost to them ever, then split a 2/1 ballot knocking us out of the tournament, one win later, they qualified


i was extremely happy for them, but at the same time i wondered what they did different that round,

either way it was fun :)

[nmuscara]

chris who did you drop too...both teams from collins?